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Frame strength


dom
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Hi

I'm new to Parmotoring, got license have done approx 8 hours flying, 10 launches, on a brand new motor Nirvana Rodeo,

all was good for these launches good conditions, forward launches, but then tried a couple of local park in nil wind with slight shifting wind, had 3 bad experiences, 

1st wing oscillation tried to power through it it twisted me and  pulled me down on one knee, not a big impact but prop hit cage broke 3 blade prop and tore wing.

2nd different location nil wind wing slightly off centre powered on to straighten lines put pressure on cage prop hit cage prop survived, but cage section buggered.

3rd Launch good launch good conditions but had changed throttle to chameleon got off ground just then i always instinctively, back power off a fraction, but with chameleon, not much throttle travel so came off too much ended sat down not big impact, cage hit prop, smashed prop and 3 cage sections.

Now i know these are bad decisions on my behalf, not blaming the motor, or anyone else, confidence is smashed.

Thinking of changing the motor to one with a clutch and stronger cage and more prop clearance 

All of the mistake i have made i wouldn't have done the same damage as i did with a stronger cage i've read a few reports about the nirvana rodeos being weak on the cages and line pressure making them hit the props. 

I think maybe i bought a more advanced paramotor for more experienced pilots, i know i need more practice and experience but would like a little more forgiveness when i do make a mistake.

i have a PAP dealer here and flew his thor 130 seemed quite nice strong cage and plenty of prop clearance and a cage

we are a bit limited with dealers here in Australia.

we have Niravana, freshbreese, kangook, HPR, Parajet, Scout, but not much else.

Any thoughts gratefully received 

after an unbiased opinion 

Thanks Dom

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Once I went to a fly-in with 10x Nivarna rodeos. It was nill wind conditions.  Four out of the 10 guys with rodeo frames ended up with busted props and damaged cages. Strangely enough, none of the other brands there had issues.

I trained on my unit, fallen over at full thrust, fell on my knees lots of times, and after 6 years I'm still on my original prop (touch wood). Perhaps I have been lucky, or perhaps its my older double hoop stainless steel PAP frame, I don't know which. 

 

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Here goes ' try launching with out power , like paraglider style when your risers are level with your ears . Start adding some throttle maybe stretch yours arms out a bit more to get your line set on its way up past the cage . Give up trying to bully you

wing in the air . If it feels wrong hit your stop button .    Give it ago. Hope this is of some help .

cas .

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Hey dom whereabouts in Aus are you? I'm going to be in Melbourne in about two weeks and might have my Backbone with ROS125 engine and double hoop frame you could try. I'm trying to sell it here in NZ but it might not sell.

I'm surprised to hear that the Rodeo frames aren't that solid? They look like they're double hooped, beefy, and certainly more solid than something like a Miniplane?

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Im in brisbane yeah reasoni bought the rodeo instead of the instinct was thought the frame was stronger but the aluminum is really weak and flexible not much prop clearance so slightest bump and prop hits cage. One tging a bit worrying if i landed badly theres no back protection the cage would fold and my spine would impact most other ppgs seem to have a solid base protecting your fuel tank and your back dont think i did enough research before i bought it

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Thanks for advice cas i normally launch as you described and never power on until wing is level above head just last 2 times was impatient and tried pushing through is with power bad mistake being new to ppg didnt realise in nil wind you could still get so much shifting air pushing wing around.

I think i was under the illusion i nil wind i could launch from anywhere but not so

As with paragliding patience is key

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3 hours ago, dom said:

Im in brisbane yeah reasoni bought the rodeo instead of the instinct was thought the frame was stronger but the aluminum is really weak and flexible not much prop clearance so slightest bump and prop hits cage. One tging a bit worrying if i landed badly theres no back protection the cage would fold and my spine would impact most other ppgs seem to have a solid base protecting your fuel tank and your back dont think i did enough research before i bought it

Guh, holy crap. That sounds awful. You're also using a motor without a clutch though right? Which one is it? 

I'm new myself and I'm wondering if a clutch is *really* that important for my next machine. But it seems like a prop strike when the motor is just idling is enough to destroy stuff, huh?

I've done butt landings before and it was fine on my frame. I bought it used and it already had a crack in it but the fix was to simply insert a smaller steel tube inside the cracked section and rivet it in there. A clean straight crack in the aluminum I think is much better to repair than a part that's gets bendy and cracky at the same time. 

Good thing that cages aren't structural.

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The advantage of a clutch is that the prop isn't turning when the motor is idling.  The disadvantage is that it continues to spin after you have cut the engine.  I fly with a clutched machine, but there have been times when it would have been advantageous to have a machine with direct drive.  I like that the prop stops instantly.

I don't mean this with any disrespect, because I have been where you are, but prehaps your budget might be better spent on more training.  Good instruction would have helped you avoid your mishaps, whatever your machine.  It will re-build your confidence and save you a fortune on damaged equipment.

Persist, it's a great sport, there is nothing to touch it.

Christian

 

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22 hours ago, dom said:

One tging a bit worrying if i landed badly theres no back protection the cage would fold and my spine would impact most other ppgs seem to have a solid base protecting your fuel tank and your back dont think i did enough research before i bought it

Correct me if i'm wrong (Not) but the Rodeo like the Adventure has a very Solid molded fibreglass back area, which i think is stronger and more protective than most other Paramotor set-ups, but yes i agree the aluminium cage is a bit flexible.:o

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Yeah I've been back and spent a couple of hours with an instructor, since mishaps with his motor. Just to get confidence back.

the nirvana does have a fibreglass back area but your bum sits lower than that when  cage crumples the next thing to crumple is your back

i know what ever you do if you make a mistake then you generally are going to break something, just seems the rodeo has a very small margin for any error, and where you may carry a spare prop in case of a breakage, can't afford to carry 4 cage sections just in case.

i have learnt conditions need to be perfect, and walk away if not.

thanks for advice guys

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