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Robert Rubl

Polini 190 light vs Vittorazi Moster 185

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Hello,

I need some help to decide btw this two engines: Polini 190 light and Vittorazi Moster 185

I will appreciate some comments regarding real weight, trust, fuel consumption, noise, vibration, and whatever you consider relevant for this decision.

If this topic already exist be so kind and redirect me.

thanks,

Robert

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Hi Rob, since seems that nobody can help you, I'll give my little contribution

personally I do own a Vittorazi fly 100, and I do have only tested the moster 185. Never tested the polini 190

According to the high grade of reliability of the moster, the slightly lower price level and the very efficient customer service of the producer, I would go with the vittorazi.

Edited by calcifer

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I think the problem here is that most of us can only report on one engine.

I seem to remember that when I spoke to ParaJet about the Moster/Thor question the answer was that there is very little to choose between them. The big difference is down to if you want electric start, if so then the Thor190 is the only option.

I weight 110kg ready to fly and have certainly never felt that I needed more power take off and climb out feels easy and quick - having said that I am still very much a novice.

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I am loving our moster zenith at the moment :-)

i am 75kg so do not have issues with the fuel burn (as some heavier pilots would report) 

we got one for the school because of its known reliability. 

SW :D

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I have posted this before, but it helps with comparing some specs and thrusts, quoted or actual.

I think there is little to choose between them. I am a fan of the Nitro so I now have an unbiased view between moster and thor190.

I would say thor190 is quieter.

Reliability? hmm.. difficult as the 190 has had its problems, maybe all sorted maybe still ongoing, depends who you ask. I'm not up to date on that. Generally the moster is very reliable, although theres a good 50/50 chance you will need an exhaust at sometime in its life, but the engine is unlikely to let you down. The moster needs an exhaust service part every 20 hours, which is a tad annoying.

Vittorazi are better at responding to warranty or when buying spares. In the UK there is a choice of dealers with parts available. I think parts are generally cheaper to buy for the moster.

Thor has its plus points also, I have a bit more experience with moster to comment.

 

Not saying one way or the other

 

If it were me, id buy a nitro ;) but I'm bias.

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When I purchased a new motor, I also looked into these two machines.

A certain MD said, that if you want a electric start go for the 190.  If you are OK with a pull start go for a Moster.

A certain mechanic said,  Don't see many moster's in here, but I always see the 190's.

For me - that made my mind up. Yes maybe the moster drinks more (not sure), but at least you are flying and not waiting for your motor to be fixed.

Tony

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I am very new to this game (4 flights). Have had 2 flights on my Mostar 185 (which I love). I worked it quite hard for an hour on the second flight and it used 3.5 ltrs. I am 105kg

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To be honest - If you're 105kg getting 3.5 ltrs is some going

Have you a marquee above your head!!!

I think most of us get between 5-6 ltrs.

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I've had a Moster one of the first, flew it for four years apart from a crank bearing seize do to the reserve bridal wrapping itself around the main shaft I had no problems at all I found on a 12lt tank I'd get 2 1/2 hours flying on a 34nuc it always started after a couple of pulls think I changed the plug twice just left it alone and it always did the job. 

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I'm flying a moster silent (bulldog frame) with a nucleon wrc 29 and I'm 85-90Kg in the pink (depending upon what time of the year you weigh me).

I definitely find it powerful enough, but it does consume somewhere between 5-6 litres per hour depending upon how much I'm in the higher throttle range. For long XC I have to load up with 15 litres... which can make nil winders a bit of a jog! It always starts and the number of pulls depends upon how well you've primed it. Sometimes first pull... other times I'm like a bell ringer!

I think it is very important to change the exhaust seal every 20-25 hours though, otherwise the exhaust can crack. Its not a very difficult job at all.

I'm definitely happy with mine <touches wood>.

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I very happy with mine too.  Not that accurate, but on average I'll getting 5-6 litres, but never TO with 15 on board yet :-)

Reference starting - I'm finding it very hard to start from cold on my back - I do try, I'm guessing in the end I flood it and then start the motor on the ground (slight throttle and starts no problem). Do we all cold start on the ground, would be nice to know, or is it me????  I know it is not the best solution :-( 

Once it has started - there is no problem starting on my back - first pull most of the time.

Might need more porridge oats or longer arms!!!

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5 minutes ago, asquaddie said:

Reference starting - I'm finding it very hard to start from cold on my back - I do try, I'm guessing in the end I flood it and then start the motor on the ground (slight throttle and starts no problem). Do we all cold start on the ground, would be nice to know, or is it me????  I know it is not the best solution :-( 

No, I never start mine on the ground or ever run it anywhere other than on my back. Its a habit I really don't want to get into.

My cold starting 'method' is to pressurise the tank first to ensure the primer bulb is 'wet'. This may be bulldog specific. Then, with it on the ground, I give it a few primes, turn the prop a few times (engine isolated and holding throttle trigger open) and then a few more primes and turns. I'll fart around for a few minutes (checking gear and tat) then prime and turn it once again. I then slip it all on, click it to live, pull the chord once (too slowly for it to fire), and then go for it. This method seems to get it to fire on pull 1-3. That said, sometimes its first yank and others it a few more... but it always starts!

I do find that sometimes it will peter out as it uses fuel in the line up. I then just re-prime on my back and go again, which is never an issue.

My arms are not that long but I do like porridge!

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I prime the motor until I hear a 'hiss' noise (sometimes) on the ground, then I slip in and pull it once or twice slowly on my back and then try and start it.

I try only 4 or 5 times,,,,,,,,,,,then place it on the ground, check the throttle/spring again and start it with a slight throttle. Then it starts first or second time.

Guys - no hate mail please :-) I know starting it on the ground is bad practice - and I don't like it. I do as many checks as possible.

I'll try your method and see how it goes :-) 

 

Edited by asquaddie

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I would cold start mine on the ground I would prime all the air from the fuel line then two big squeezes of the printing bulb and it would always start the only time it played around I changed the plug and all good after that 

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Crikey... no hate from me asquaddie, I'm a lover not a fighter! No, please do what you're happiest with and what works best for you. I've just found a method that seems to work nicely for me.

TBH I always had to start my previous old Volution 1 on the ground... and that was electric start! The placement of the choke plate forced my hand with that old thing.

If you ever watch Mike Chilvers or Clive Bunce start a Moster its like poetry - they pull the loo chain and it fires. I guess that's what you get after thousands of starts on many different mosters!

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On 29/7/2016 at 3:17 PM, reactionjackson said:

No, I never start mine on the ground or ever run it anywhere other than on my back. Its a habit I really don't want to get into.

neither do I !

after have withnessed 2 bad accidents caused by ground starting the engine, I promised myself that I would have NEVER and NEVER done it again.

My engine (vittorazi fly 100) is well tuned and if carefully primed regularly cold starts @ first or second pull. All the pilost should try to tune their engine for a easy cold start on the back, since the ground starting is, based on my experience, the only and really dangerous part of paramotoring.

Edited by calcifer

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I am happy to say that my last 5 flights I've had, I've started my motor on my back (2 of them being cold starts :-) ).

As guys were saying, it is a lot to do with technique too and of course a motor than can start :-)

 

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Just though I'd chime in on this old thread as I've now owned both these engines and flown them both for >30 hrs each.

I'll start out with saying I prefer the Moster, for the following reasons.

1. It's lighter (although I have the moster factory which amplifies the difference in weight)

2. Not just lighter, but I'm sure the weight is carried closer to your back which makes it feel MUCH lighter

3. In my experience over time the moster has proven to be far less finicky with regards to carb settings or plugs.  It just keeps running and runs well - I think that vitorazzi uses their own specific configuration of walbro carb which just seems to work.  The 190 is far fussier and seems very susceptible to flat spots in the rpm range.

4.  Reliabilty - I have actually owned two Thor 190s as the first one had to be replaced under warranty as it lunched itself - I've also lost hours of flying time because of niggles with carburettor and spark plugs.  The moster just starts and delivers. THOUGH on the negative, the moster titanium exhaust has cracked on me and needed replacement (also warranty) but this was handled in an extremely efficient manor and was much easier to replace than the battle I had getting Polini to accept that my brand new engine which only ran for <30 mins deserved to be replaced with new rather than just rebuilt.

5.  Power is much smoother-  the combo of the vito eprop and moster is just very very nice, linear and I'd be willing to bet produces a little more than the 190 light and Helix combo I've been flying.  Could be the prop that makes the difference, but can only say that the moster feels like it has more.

6. packaging, the moster is just altogether a neater package aesthetically than the 190

7. Noise, subjective this, and as mentioned I've got the titanium pipe and carbon muffler of the factory moster,  but I prefer the sound of the Moster.  I'd judge that it's slightly quieter in flight too.

as for the 190 it does have a couple of advantages.

1.  Fuel economy - flying  the same me on the same wing, I've achieved better fuel economy with the 190 Thor than I've ever managed with the moster.

2. Electric start, well it's not really an advantage in itself, BUT, the 190 Es has a built in generator, to keep charge in the battery, which has provided very useful in flight power (via adding a small 12v USB widget from eBay (about £6 if I remember rightly)  which is super handy for keeping iPhone charged to use for navigation on long XC flights.

 

 

 

 

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On 29/07/2016 at 12:14, asquaddie said:

To be honest - If you're 105kg getting 3.5 ltrs is some going

Have you a marquee above your head!!!

I think most of us get between 5-6 ltrs.

I get just under 4 l/hr with Thor 190. I am 90kg.

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Hi 

I have a Moster 185 plus, not one problem in 2 years running. As a matter of fact mine started second pull after having sat in my heated garage all winter ( October of last year was when I put it away). Same gas as last year..with a little Stabil in it though. 5-6 months no running and fires right up is ptetty good to me. 

Brian

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The 190 and 185 are both good and little to choose between, however if your a beginner more thought should be given to the frame type as you will definitely fall or slip at some time, even with lots of hours logged you will slip.

I have the V3 and I'm very impressed with frame it is strong and can take a few bumps, as you assume correctly I have slipped a few times, mostly due to Dew.

save your self pounds and choose a good frame with either engine.

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