Jump to content

Front vs side reserve parachute


simonposner
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • 2 weeks later...

hi Simon,

just consider one thing : the front reserve can be deployed with both the hands. The side reserve can be deployed only with the hand from the side it is installed. If for any reason the hand from that side should not be available (injuried, tangled in lines, etc. etc.) , you have a reserve but you cannot deploy it. That's why here in Italy the 90% of the reserves are placed in a frontal position.

The other 10% of the reserves are placed on the frame behind the head of the pilot (only a few frames like fly products allow this positioning of the reserve) but it is not a common configuration because even if also this reserve can be deployed with both the hands, in case of high levels of G force (like fast spirals) could be not easy to rise the hands for to reach the handle.

never seen a single side-mounted reserve.

The frontal position is simply the best and the safest, even if it requires a little bit more time to be placed during the pre-flight procedure, but consider the further advantage that the container can also be used as flight cockpit for your instruments.

Edited by calcifer
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to have mine in the side mounted position but changed it for front mounting which as already mentioned is great for using as a cockpit, I was also not keen on having one of the bridle straps routing behind my head which in my opinion is on deployment perfectly positioned to catch the back of my helmet which could result in neck injury.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, paulg18 said:

I used to have mine in the side mounted position but changed it for front mounting which as already mentioned is great for using as a cockpit, I was also not keen on having one of the bridle straps routing behind my head which in my opinion is on deployment perfectly positioned to catch the back of my helmet which could result in neck injury.

How do you attach your reserve to your harness shoulder mounting points without routing some of the bridle behind your head? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not that I'd dream of advising against an instructor's advice (esp Simon's ;-) ) to a student, but personally I'd never attach my reserve to the riser's carabiners as the loading on opening would be immense plus you'd be leaning backwards on descent so would struggle to do a PLF.  I also like the idea that the reserve isn't attached to the same point as the thing that is causing the problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Steve said:

Not that I'd dream of advising against an instructor's advice (esp Simon's ;-) ) to a student, but personally I'd never attach my reserve to the riser's carabiners as the loading on opening would be immense plus you'd be leaning backwards on descent so would struggle to do a PLF.  I also like the idea that the reserve isn't attached to the same point as the thing that is causing the problem.

totally agree. I've been taught that whenever it is possible (and 99% of the cases IT is possible, since almost all the harnesses have a separate and specific hanging point for the reserve), the reserve shall NOT be attached to the same carabiners where the risers are attached to.

What shall you do if the emergency shall be caused by the failure of one of the two above carabiners ? The reserve system shall have as less as possible common points with the main system.

 

@admin (Simon W) : can you please clarify this matter ?? thanks in advance :)

Edited by calcifer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My personal preference is front mounted so that it's in front of my face if needed. 

Also, I have yet to ever see a person with a paramotor on there back do a PLF (fairly sure it's impossible) 

Ultimately there are options, they exist because of people personal preferences. 

If your one of those pilots who will one day, take off and fly along the hedge rows and then another day up at 3000ft on a cross country, the front mounted it a good option as it's not a 'permanent mount' (why carry an extra Xkg's of useless reserve parachute if your hedge hopping?) 

There are downsides to a side mounted.. EG, can you find it when you need too? weight shift counters torque on take off and climb but makes it worse with the engine off for landing... (to name a couple) 

There are also plus sides EG, it's always there if it's side mounted so you cant take off without it. 

Horses for courses... each to there own. 

Regarding opening load... Total strength per crab, 22.2kn (standard crab) = 2708.4 KG x 2 = 5416.8 KG so basically, if one of those snaps on you, everything else has already snapped (including your lines and indeed most likely the fabric of the parachute.) 

Again, this is just my opinion. I am happy to research this if any data has been collected which I doubt... 

Things like Carabiners you have to check and indeed 'trust' if you don't why would you fly? that's like not trusting the bolt that holds the blades onto a helicopter. 

SW :D

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting reply there Si, it's definitely a worthy topic for discussion. :-)

I've jumped off my kid's climbing frame onto a bouldering mat with my, at the time, already bent and broken paramotor and it wasn't a balletic or graceful thing to watch - but I did get to collapse a little rather than thudding into the ground, but I was upright which is how I would have been under a reserve attached to my harness mounts. Don't know how it would have been whilst tilted backwards on a riser mount.

I was concerned before I side-mounted my reserve about it having an influence on things but surprisingly I found it made no noticeable difference at all.

From my rescue days, we always said a carabiner is at full strength on it's first day in use, after that it suffered from being dropped, scratched, the gate mechanism got dirt and grit in it, risk of not being locked or closed properly, etc. 

It would be good to hear from pilots who have thrown their reserve and landed as to what happened, especially if we could have feedback from pilots using different mounting options.

It's encouraging that there are so few incidents of PPG reserve deployments, and as someone once said to me a couple of years ago. 'I carry a reserve but I'm never going to need it ... but I won't fly without it'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, cas_whitmore said:

Just to add to Simons 5416.8 kgs that very near 5.1/2 tons . Nice to know .

cas . 

Don't forget that the shock loading affects everything to which the carabiner is connected (shackle, etc).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Forgive me if I'm being a bit thick here... but, if a reserve is front mounted, would it not still be handed (i.e. can still only be thrown to one side)? That is, if the Y bridle is routed to one side, it has got to be thrown the same side nest pas?

I personally have mine mounted on my left side which, I believe, opposes the torque (moster engine). I fly with my throttle in my right hand. Whenever I'm in proper lumpy air I'll always have a reassuring tickle of the reserve handle - just so I know where to send my hand in a shit-tacular moment.

I have occasionally flown without it - but I'm always very aware when its not there.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, reactionjackson said:

Forgive me if I'm being a bit thick here... but, if a reserve is front mounted, would it not still be handed (i.e. can still only be thrown to one side)? That is, if the Y bridle is routed to one side, it has got to be thrown the same side nest pas?

Yes, if it's front mounted and attached to the harness reserve mounting points then it will still be 'handed'. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, reactionjackson said:

if a reserve is front mounted, would it not still be handed (i.e. can still only be thrown to one side)? That is, if the Y bridle is routed to one side, it has got to be thrown the same side nest pas?

not necessarily.

I do admit that would be preferable to throw it in the bridle routing side, but not necessarily.

Obviously if you use to keep the throttle in your right hand you will probably throw the reserve with your left hand to your left side, and you will take care in routing the bridle of a center mounted reserve by the left side. But you can still throw the reserve with your right hand, in case.

Just consider that, as I wrote, with a left side mounted reserve there is no right hand throwing option. If your left hand is "out of service" , you have no reserve. And I think this is the reason why here in Italy I have never seen a side mounted reserve, even if I admit that it is a much more confortable option (no additional harness to be locked in pre-flight)

Edited by calcifer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Steve said:

Don't forget that the shock loading affects everything to which the carabiner is connected (shackle, etc).

I posted that info in direct response to a concern about carabiners, the point I was having a go at making is  that the fabric of the parachute, the sewn in lines, and so on.. would more than likely fail pre Carabiner. :-)

SW :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, reactionjackson said:

Forgive me if I'm being a bit thick here... but, if a reserve is front mounted, would it not still be handed (i.e. can still only be thrown to one side)? That is, if the Y bridle is routed to one side, it has got to be thrown the same side nest pas?

I personally have mine mounted on my left side which, I believe, opposes the torque (moster engine). I fly with my throttle in my right hand. Whenever I'm in proper lumpy air I'll always have a reassuring tickle of the reserve handle - just so I know where to send my hand in a shit-tacular moment.

I have occasionally flown without it - but I'm always very aware when its not there.

If it's mounted to the Carabiners it can be deployed by either hand in either direction. 

SW :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thinking about it - mounting it to the caribs would mean one line would have to be attached/detached everytime you get in or out of the harness. By having it go to the harness reserve points you can "fit and forget" other than keeping it part of you pre-flight safety checks.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Paragliding pilots usually have a side mounted reserve chute in the harness. Sometimes, they have two (one on each side), mostly acro pilots.

Attaching an reserve chute to an essential and used part of a paramotor is imho not a good idea. If the carabiners fail during flight you have nothing left, except for falling down. Besides, when attaching and detaching every time, you add an extra moment of failure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

If you do choose a side mounted reserve on a paramotor, choose to fit it to the opposite side the prop spins to counter the torque effect otherwise you are adding to it. Most props spin anticlockwise, so torque you left, so in most cases putting the reserve on the right side makes more sense (but this will depend on your machine and also your throttle hand).

 

Also for attaching a reserve to reserve bridles, don't forget to make sure the maillons don't slip about on the reserve bridles. I've found self sealing silicon tape to be brilliant for this as it doesn't leave any residue or seal to the bridles themselves. I've always been warey of putting electrical tape or something similar around the maillon-bridle connection and sillicon tape really solves this issue. It's also thermal resistant and water resistant so I have used it on other parts of my paramotor (like my throttle cable which also has electrical wires and has previously been burnt through when rubbing against the exhaust). Usually £5 to £8 a roll so not super cheap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Just went for front container option.

For a few years I was sort of compelled to use a side container with SupAir harness. The reason for it was quite simple - I am not able to reach central reserve handle because of the horns ( short hands syndrome: ) 

Recently I spotted GIN front container with the handles, located at the sides and installed it. Quite happy with it.

normal_20170219_152824-01.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently sent my reserve to get repacked, and having never seen it deployed before i took it out with me on the daily dog walk and `threw` it when i got to a secluded part of the walk (where no one was looking or else they`d think i was weird playing with parachutes in the middle of nowhere...)

I`ve a front-mounted SupAir.

So i grabbed the handle and yanked - i was surprised at just how much effort was required to separate the velcro panel holding the handle in place...

One hand couldn`t quite do it so i had to use both hands.

The length of nylon webbing attaching the handle to the inner `nappy` (is that the right term?) was quite long, i had to really extend my arms to pull the nappy out of the container.

But the nappy complete with chute didn`t really come fully out of the container, the chute just sort of pulled out with the nappy half in/ half out.

The result was that the chute just sort of fell to my feet in a sorry pile as if it were my guts after comitting harikari...!

I got the chute inflated and it seemed quite small, especially when compared to a wing, and i wondered just how fast the descent would be in a real emergency scenario.

I suppose it`s a life-saver at the end of the day and it`s purpose is to get you back to the ground alive, even thought that may not be at a nice, slow descent with a comfortable, soft landing..

I weighed it, too - bloody 2.6kg!

Poche_Ventrale_Para_Light.jpg

 

 

Edited by Hann__
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As with everything in Paramotoring there is a plus and negative..  Use what you feel is best for you. I started off using Front mount and now use a side container for may reasons. What ever style you choose be sure to Grab the handle a few times in each flight without looking down for it for your first 20-30 hours...  Knowing exactly where it is when the sh1te hits the fan is key.   It is becoming very clear the past couple of years the PPG pilots do not do SIV training unlike the free flying guys. Knowing 'How' to throw your reserve correctly is as important as having one in the first pace!!!.. Even getting your self to a big fat repack and going down the zip wire will give you a feel whats it's like to actually deploy your reserve..   Even better get your self on an SIV!!!  

If anyone thinks that just because you fly in the morning or late evenings when everything is calm and that you will never need to use it you are WRONG!!   I personally know a UK pilot who was flying straight and level in benign conditions and ended up upside down with the wing underneath him. He landed unhurt after throwing his chute from 1000ft.. I also had my wing go Full Parachutal last year after flying into a bit of rain, I didn't throw mine but had my hand on it a few times...  fighting it all the way to the ground i hit hard at 8mps...   

What ever you choose get it fitted to the manufacturers specs and correctly by a qualified instructor or your trusted dealer... 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share



  • Upcoming Events

    No upcoming events found
×
×
  • Create New...