Ganbatte

Yes, you're correct on all points. I've not seen user feedback anywhere regarding the skymax Ti exhaust, but am enticed by the weight shaved, hence me soliciting such experiences. (I'm really struggling with even "light" school motors, so looking for ways to make my life easier at grunt time, without making it harder at wrench time.)

Well if I were to go with that Ti exhaust, it'd automatically make the vitto original exhaust an on-hand spare, wouldn't it? So durability counts, and Ti is weldable if it's not overstressed to begin with, so not even much down time. But it'd be nice to know if it's likely to last, perform reasonably, and not hurt the engine.

Does anyone here have any first or second hand experience with the Skymax titanium exhaust for the moster? Durability, any effect on perceived thrust or noise, any adverse effects on the engine, etc? It looks (from the marketing info, but you know about relying on marketing info) as if it'd shave a bit of weight off the vitto steel exhausts, and I can handle the cost, but I hate to seriously consider any expenditure without user experience data. Thanks!

Huh, how did I miss that one? Thanks! So I gather some of the design changes are as of, um, march '19 IIRC? That's more recent than I realized, and explains some of the opinions I've encountered; they mostly, I think, predate that. Anyway, that's interesting, thanks again!

Every little bit of data helps, and also helps assuage the frustration while I sit here watching weather forecasts and... sitting here watching weather forecasts, and... sitting here some more watching weather forecasts, and... Well you get the idea.

Okay, I see this, and Paul has given his thoughts quite coherently. So at this point, the impression I get is the 150 should deliver performance roughly comparable to a nitro 200, but with less vibration, is that fair? Do you have any stats, even just top of the head impressions, comparing general reliability or service life of those two? The advice to get hands-on if possible is sound; I may or may not be able to manage that with all models, esp fly one for test, just mapping out the terrain at this point. Atom is too small for me, so it's looking like the main contenders are nitro, 150 and maybe moster (though I don't like the extra weight, I may at some point decide I need the extra power. It'd be premature to decide something like that at this point, though.) With nitro ofc I don't get a choice of harness, frame etc, so that's a mild down side there. I've not heard anything horrible about the seat, hoop etc, but I do like choice...

Our vitals are not that dissimilar, and I'm not sayin' any more than that! That's an interesting endorsement of the 150; I infer that you compared it against the main competitors: nitro 200 and moster? I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts. The Wasp looks like a nicely made frame, and that total weight is very attractive. I do have an irrational reaction to any netting pattern that leaves large gaps. It doesn't matter if they're "in safe spots", I see that and it's just nails on chalkboard time. Maybe it's unfair, but, well, you should have faith in your gear, and if something about it freaks you out, you won't. But. There are other frames in the same general class which all seem to garner some positive reviews. Two I've noticed are the skymax star and the fly products (?) Eclipse. All lightweight, all or mostly titanium. Can you (or anyone) offer any thoughts or impressions on those two or anything similar, preferably based on hands-on? I recall hearing gossip to the effect the nitro's hoop is a bit squishy, don't know if that's true or not... So many questions, thanks for entertaining them!

Curiosity question to you-all who use EOS engines, either the 100 or 150... What's your pilot weight, and what do you think of the performance of your motor working against your weight, please? (I love hands-on, direct from source data!) Any other relevant data, such as unusual altitude or anything? Thanks!

Ok, that's encouraging, thanks!

Thanks for that. How available are parts for EOS engines?

Thanks, I'll take a look. Though I will admit I've heard a moderate amount of chatter along the lines that EOS motors need a little design work yet. Those people's comments weren't very specific, so I don't know how much weight to put on them.

Re the portable folding table, yes, have that already, though for now it's doing household utility duty. My (possibly slightly uptight) thoughts on those are nice luxury from a home field, but I *have* to be able to do without it, should I need to land somewhere and launch again. This is why the "couldn't stand up" experience shocked me enough to lose that 35 kg during winter shutdown period, and leaves me still to this day a bit cautious about weight. I've never heard a bad word directed at the atom 80, except it's too small for me. If they made an atom 120, I'd be all over that like white on rice! They'll likely announce one just as soon as I go for something else. Awaiting shipment notification of my first own wing as we speak. I'm calling it my "granny wing", and am sitting on pins and needles waiting. (Pssst! Hey you! Finish sewing and send it already! <g>) Chose it to max out ease of launch and land; speed and fancy stuff can wait. I'm not in the UK, but the school does have a maverick/moster, so I'll certainly be trying that before pulling the trigger on anything. Regular Mav, not the pro. FWIW, I too like the numbers on the eclipse, but I've not seen one in person to try to flex the hoop and such. I still haven't heard a reason why my short prop scheme would be a bad idea. Anyone?

Looking at commonly offered packages a while ago, I concluded the next lightest combination after the Nitro was, oddly enough, the Tornado. Which my instructor is very firm "too much power for beginner". I can understand that; don't want to star in the next youtube riser twist video.

The mav pro is listed as 21.5 kg with moster, but to accomplish that, they equip it with the apco split leg harness, compare vs 19.5 kg for the nitro v2 race pull start, with AC's lightweight but conventional harness. I do *not* know if the mav spec includes prop; some mfr's "accidentally" leave that off on the grounds it varies. Don't know if parajet is doing that or not. It does seem from the pics as if all it shares with the other mavs is the name. And it's $9k list, while the AC race at aerolight is $7350. If we're looking for an all titanium frame, I find both the design and cost of the SkyMax Star very interesting. In general, the way the midrange market looks to me is: AC Nitro or moster-with-some-frame. The Nitro engine alone is 11.6 pull, moster plus (not exactly the same, but what most people choose) is 14.4. The rest of the weight differences is the frame and harness, which AC has already shaved down pretty hard.

Well I'm 180 cm and 100 kg (all this metric is a little unnatural; being in the US I think in imperial, but ppg is a metric world), lost 35 kg specifically motivated by ppg. But I'm older than most here and have never been a jock, so... First time I put on a motor, I couldn't even stand w/o a hand up, but that was both bad technique and before the weight loss. Since then I've run across the field with running motor, so the situation isn't hopeless, but I still put huge importance on weight. Chances are I'll care less when I've logged a couple score hours, but until then I remain (possibly excessively) interested in weight. And booboo resistance. For the near future, I'll likely be flying the school's Nitro; all this shopping/thinking is forward planning and subject to change. But all that said, I very much doubt I'd go with anything as heavy as a V3, Viper etc, no matter the other virtues they offer. IMO the EOS engines aren't yet ready for prime time, so my motor choices are either nitro-full-kit or moster, moster or moster, even though I think it's more power than I need and more weight than I'd prefer. Unless I travel to a flyin somewhere, it's unlikely I'll get to even look at most options in person before cutting a check, so that's not ideal, but the way it is. The school motors I'll get to play with will be nitro and mav/moster; the other motors on hand are either too light (atom 80) or too heavy (thor). Anything else the school doesn't own will be paper shopping and picking other ppl's brains. Which is what I'm doing here now. Aside from "get more skilled" (I'm working on that, though slowly, considering the season), I really am interested in "is there a technical reason why my 3 short blades scheme would be a bad idea?".

Well, nobody *plans* on a bad launch or especially landing; we can plan against them, though. Considering that a single prop strike, even if it bites no flesh, costs double that much plus some number of flying days while we wait for parts, the monetary argument isn't terribly telling. If it doesn't work, otoh, would be. I have no pride in this area; if doing something training wheels'ish avoids problems, I don't care if my motor looks less cool than it's supposed to.

So, I'll be using school equipment for a while yet, but it's not too soon to start *thinking* about my ideal first motor. And my thoughts seem to wander afield from the well trodden path, so it seems sensible to run them past the crew here, see what people think. Titanium is very tough and springy and easily bent back into shape, so it seems a no-brainer for someone who might have a few butt landings in the beginning. The SkyMax Star frame looks very interesting, pragmatic and cost effective. Not to mention light, which matters a lot for me. How does one choose a harness without hands-on evaluation? People seem to like the Sup Air line, but dudek's Power Comfort gets nothing but rave reviews at a modest weight cost. I don't have the skinniest butt ever (100 kg naked), can anyone make a recommendation in this area? And my most heretical thought: Assuming a moster engine (which I consider a bit stronger than I really need anyway) and a conventional 130 cm hoop... I'm considering passing up the conventional 125 cm 2-blade prop for a 115 cm 3 blade, *purely for the extra clearance* in the event of a bad launch or landing. Thoughts? Suggestions? Reasons my ideas are crazy and won't work? Thanks!

I can't compare against the Seed because I've not seen one, but I bought a similar kiting-only wing a WindPlay (Everest brand, seems to be an Air Conception brand) for $750 shipped from Eric Dufour at paratours, and am quite happy with it. It's a perky little thing at 12 meters, likes to really pop up in light wind, will test your reflexes (I have a way to go before I'm fully in control of it in variable wind). Just another option there. Oh, I just looked at the site, they have different patterns now than the one I bought, and a choice of colors. That's neat. Here's a link: http://www.paratour.com/content/Everest_Windplay.php

Thanks a bunch guys, that's exactly the encouragement/confirmation I was looking for. I'm older and slower than my classmates, have stopped faceplanting during tows, but want to give myself every advantage I can initially, esp in nil wind, which is the situation a lot of the time in my area. If I outgrow the hybrid after a little while and make it the fallback wing for nil wind days but switch to something else when I have a little breeze to help launch, that's perfectly okay! :) (But with few people familiar with a hybrid and none available locally to try out, asking for peoples' experiences is the only available alternative to just cutting a check and hoping for the best.)

So you've triggered my curiosity; what other wings have you flown?

Cool, that's kindof what I'd expect from the ad copy, but you never know about ad copy. Thanks for the reply!

Does anyone have hands on experience with the Apco hybrid? Their marketing emphasizes very slow launch and land speeds (and pretty slow flight too, which I don't consider a problem), but every brand has a wing or three they describe as "ridiculously easy launch", so who knows? My instructor has opinions only on wings he knows (of course) and that's not one of them. In the best of all worlds, I'll stumble across someone who's familiar not only with the hybrid, but also the spyder 3, another model I'm considering. Thanks!