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 Post subject: tandem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:21 pm
Posts: 2
I am looking at starting to fly paramotor tandem and would like to hear from anyone re. kit, wings and harness and spreader bars etc. I have heard recently of one or two incidents with regards articulation of the linking system between motor pilot and passenger. What does anybody know think of the Apco play42. Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:20 am
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Location: Seend, Wiltshire
Chris at Skydragons is pretty knowledgeable about tandem kit.

I filmed this short flight last week

http://youtube.com/watch?v=n5xLzd4yidA

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 Post subject: Re: tandem
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:38 pm 
simonsam wrote:
I am looking at starting to fly paramotor tandem and would like to hear from anyone re. kit, wings and harness and spreader bars etc. I have heard recently of one or two incidents with regards articulation of the linking system between motor pilot and passenger. What does anybody know think of the Apco play42. Thanks


It is absolutely critical that the P1 and P2 are kept "in-line" with each other by some means. This is the purpose of the linking bar that fixes the motor the P1 and the P2 in a line. Any system that does not fullfill this is dangerous.

Next you need to think about getting airbourne. The further apart the pilots the easier it is to run without tripping each other up. Most paragliding tandem pilots would say that light or nil wind launches are difficult and hazardous; add a motor to this and it gets harder!
BUT the further apart the pilots the more inertia there is in "yaw" and keeping the wing and motor thrust line on the same track gets harder.

Next you need to think about relative position of pilots fore and aft; some systems have the P1 higher, some have them at the same level. Higher means more drag but better visibility.

Next you need to think about the airspeed of your rig and choose a glider that will have a low enough airspeed for you (both) be able to run it up to airspeed. Obviously if the higher the wind speed the lower the running speed you need. Larger slower gliders favour low take off ground speed but then the top speed is limiting you to lower top wind speeds. i think all "tandem" rated gliders are fine for ppg if they are good for pg.

Next you need to start doing pull ups or you ill not have enough muscle stamina for more than a few minutes of the control pressure. The heavier you load the higher this pressure.

Selecting your P2 is important. Not everyone straight off the street is suitable. The P2 plays a very active and important role in take off and landing. You need to have a very clear briefing and some ground practise with them first.

You need enough power to fly the load. 160% of the poer needed to maintain level flight at least. so a 220kg rig at 5:1 l/d needs 44kg to maintain level and you need 160% of 44 = 70kg dynamic thrust. Add 10kg for static thrust figure as a rough guide.

You need a very big reserve and consider very carefully how to mount it and how the bridles need to be routed.


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 Post subject: Francis
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:51 pm 
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Location: Lambourn, Berkshire, Wiltshire, Hampshire, Oxfordshire
I recon francis is your man.

SW :D

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 Post subject: tandem
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:21 pm
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Thanks guys, Francis do you know anything about the apco fly42, I notice you sell independence gliders would you recommend their tandem and would you recommend any particular spreader bars. I currently fly an av8er paramotor with a thrust hp and am very happy with this combination


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:13 pm 
Hi Simon, I am very pleased with the Independence speed, it is very agile but very heacy on the controls. . The Dudek Orca is also a good tandem wing and I regularly fly my Airwave Duet for up to 18 kg as it is much lighter to control. I have never flown the Apco Is it made of gelvenor? this is very long lasting fabric but is heavier so on a big wing there can be a problem with inertia in the wing; just means it wont be as nimble perhaps? and need stopping on launch to prevent overshoot? I am guessing......

I have developed a spreader bar that fits to a parajet swinging arm but could have a bracket made to fit an AV8er machine possibly? I think Paul has his own system that is a reworking of MCJ's idea. Ask him if he will supply you with that? I seem to remember he fits it to the arm where the wing carabiner attaches and it has extra offsets. I dont remember the arm on his machines as being very strong like the parajet to take that exttra loading (it isnt much unless you get "dynamic" then it can get side loads that are a bit "unfair". I didnt like it but he has used it for years with great success. I dont think it had a reserve system when I saw it.

If you were to come to us we would be suggesting a parajet/independence system probably with a simonini engine if you want to fly 200kg and above. Independence do a reserve that is big enough so I if you want to buy all new I can put a deal together for you including tuition. (tandem pilot tuition is as much about the psychology of the dual pilot as the extra skill set required).


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