Hello and some help needed

Hello to all

This is my first message on this site, I stumbled across this site and its turned out to be a great source on information. I am very new to the world of Paramotoring, I did my training with Skyschool about 2 months ago. All is going well until I have had a electrical problem with my Walkerjet rr.

I live in London and have a few hours under my belt all was going good until my engine stopped running.

I am hoping some of you good people could either help me or give me some information on how to fix this problem.

The problem is the I cannot get the engine to start. It turns over but no probs but no spark from the ht cap which tell me there is a problem with electric pack.

I got the very nice guy Paul Deckon who sells Walkerjet in the UK to have a look at it and he checked all the usual

The wiring from the stator

Spark Plug

HT lead and cap

Kill switch and wire

The coil.

All have being tested ok. Now Paul has advised me to send the electric pack off to Walkerjet to get it checked out. I could do this but i could be waiting months for the returns.

My field of thought is something in the electric pack has failed

40 amp relay

regulator

http://www.walkerjet.cz/img_sub/service_el_cz.gif

I was going to try and replace the relay first and start from there. Paul thinks it might be the relay. The same thing happened before and we switched the electric pack and it worked straight away.

Have any of you out there had any experience with before. Its really starting piss me off now. I have being without my paramotor for over 5 weeks now.

All i can do is watch videos on you tube and think I wish i was up there!!

Also is there any pilots who fly around north London.

Thanks

D

Hi D, welcome!

There will be someone up soon to help you along. We have a couple of members who are tops with electrics.

Any help at all would be great!!! looking forward in getting involved in the sport.

Dara

If its not to short notice...

Try to get yoursel to RG17 8RD and then call 07983 428 453 today as we can have a look at it at the field.

PS, WELCOME TO THE PMC.

SW

How electricaly minded are you - to eliminate the regulator as the problem - bypass it with an alternative power source - if your motor then starts (and you have already said it turns which suggest their is sufficient current in the battery to trigger ignition, though it'll do no harm to charge it up fully with an independant charger, as starting current can drop battery current sufficent to prevent sparking at the plug).

That all done, if it now starts, thats all the confirmation you need to change the regulator.

Whats the part number on the 40Amp reg - they tend to be fairly common (and cheap components)?

Hey guys

Thanks for your replies. I am just up from working a night last night (weather looks perfect for flying making my very angry indeed I am missing out grrrrrrrr ), I took the electric pack to work last night and took the relay off

Its has a part number of PA 56 GF25

As i had the same problem before and the pack was swapped for another one and it worked straight away I am 70% sure its something in the electric pack at fault.

But and this is a BIG but I had to replace my electric starter, I did so but before I got a new one I accidentally plugged in the speaker connector type thing. There is two inputs on the base of the electric pack and there are done like speaker connector plugs. One is the joystick type thing and one is the stator. Anyways I plugged in the wrong one and the next thing I got the stator cable slowly melting up to the stator. I managed to pull the plug out before it reached all the way up to the stator. Green horn alert yes but There is no way of telling which is which.

So after realising what i did, I freaked out and called Paul Deckin, I left it for a while and the went down to Paul's as he has the tool that you need to remove the magneto, So I set about replacing the cable from the stator as the blue cable inside had melted all the plastic about 3/4 the way up.

Did this and later Paul tested the stator and said it was fine!!!

There is a little voice telling me that the problem lies with the stator but Paul also said that the even if the stator failed the paramotor should fire up. My problem is there is no spark. As i said we have tested all the cables kill switches etc so it not a break in the circut..

Q.. How do i bypass the regulator.

Q2 I live in north London do any of you good folk know any one who is a dab handy at electrics on paramotors. Even thought I am a broadcast engineer I am still on the learning side with the 2 strokes and the electrics. I am willing to drive, I dont want to send the pack of to Walkerjet as I want to get to the root of the problem.

Anyways guys if you can help in any way it would be great,

Thanks

Dara

I am sorry - error on my part: I meant to say bypass the the 40Amp relay - NOT the regulator.

I should also add that i am speaking from a pure electrical engineering perspective - I have NO experience with this PPG model and my comments were only what you have described and the wiring diagram - so pease keep that in mind.

That all said it doesn't change my opinion - I concurr with Paul - your relay certainly appears to be the guilty party.

Are the components shown in the wiring diagram all contained in a container of sorts that represents the "electric pack" you are commenting about?

Is that container a sealed unit, or can it be opened. I am reluctant to say unseal it, but if it is easily opened, you may wish to go ahead and open it, take a diigtal pic of the insides, send it to me or post it up on the forum and chances are I will be able to point out to you what you need to "bypass" and how to go about it with some electrical cable to establish if the relay is faulty. At the same time we can see just how easy (or not as the case may be) it will be to replace - then you can get on with flying. Like regulators, chances are pretty good its going to be a automotive type relay for which you will be able to get a generic from an electronics store or car delearship. I can;t imagine it been anything more complicated than this. of course this all falls apart if everything is sealed or encapsulated but, even still a digital pic showing what wiring is going where on your paramotor may be able to provide enough info to illustrate if nothing else, how to get round the relay and at least start the machine up to confirm if its the relay. As tro wheather you then decide to fly would be your choice - so long as you can safely start/stop/restart and the regulator is working, you should be okay.

I wouldn't reccomend flying with a dodgey regulator bypassed - and its important I make that comment: its there for a very good purpose and if it ain;t regulating current as it should, then your battery is going to carry the load, not mention the potential for other components been messed up as well, or something overheating, which could be very unpleasent. However as said - back to the relay: form what you have said I strongly suspect your relay is not working properly. With everything switched on to run, can you hear any "clicks" if you press the stop or start buttons (?) - may be a solid state relay and you won;t hear it click, but if its in a little black plastic box its a mehcanical relay, listen carefully - I would have thought it will "click".

What triggers the spark on this machine? Is it points or is it breakerless? If it is breakerless and driven off part of the stator, then it could be the section of the stator that provides the impulses for the ignition breaking down.

My Solo engined Adventure had this problem. The stator trigger coil had partially broken down (it was still showing a resistance between the terminals) but enough windings were shorted for there to be inadequate trigger voltage to set off the electronic ignition.

It manifested itself as gradually deteriorating start, and then no spark at all.

Phil

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Quick test. Pull both leads off the coil (balck , red and blue wire)and connect an AC volt meter. Remove the spark plug, probably best to remove the prop as well, for safety. Crank it over, you should have at least 40V. That should at least eliminate the coil. Hope this helps.

Bendme

My understanding from the OP's earlier post is that the coil had been eliminated as the problem ... and, so to had the stator.

Hi Guys

Thanks for your help so far, I am not going to cancel out anything just yet. I tried to get replacement 40 amp relay went down to Halfords (rubbish) and a few other car places No joy...

One place thinks its a VW part so I might go down tomorrow.

The electric pack can be open and is probably the same as most paramotor with in flight charging.

I checked out Parajet and they are selling relays for £20 a pop.

I going to work on putting some pictures online so you can have a look.

Dara

Relay name and part number please ............ pretty please - may just be able to help (brother is a manager at RS Components - if they haven't got it they're sure to have an alternative).

touch 107 eh, are you a DJ?

i also have a 200rr and have had nothing but trouble ring me on 07743899090 and ill give you a heads up to save you all the grief that ive had!

Are you sure its not just the switch its self?

i only ask because i usually find that the simplest answer is usually the right one! just try pulling it out and connecting the contacts to each other, then start it

Right I got some pictures for you.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42964330@N03/3960071439/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42964330@N03/3960824146/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42964330@N03/3960833636/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42964330@N03/3960062631/

As regards the 40 amp relay its got a load of number and letters on it.

Gulfstream1 if you could help me get a replacement it would be great as I said the car dealers drew a blank on my relay....

bignos .. Great another walkerjet rr owner I drop you a call tomorrow if thats ok. Yes I DJ, I work for the BBC world service as a broadcast engineer but i also present a weekly dance show for a national broadcaster in Ireland RTE PULSE.

Big thanks to all who have help so far. If i get the bloody thing fixed I hope to join some of you if you guys do meets etc But as i said before i am green horn to the world of paramotoring..

Well, my thoughts from what I can see;

The relay looks like a standard automotive one, does it have a little diagram on it showing the pin-out? If it does, you can just buy any old replacement that has a high enough rating and connect the wires to the appropriate terminals (these are usually numbered, something like 85, 86a etc).

However;

Isn't the relay responsible for powering the starter motor, it's normally the only reason to have a relay in a circuit like this. If it does control the starter, then presumably it must be working because the starter motor is turning.

The lack of any form of CDI ignition unit suggests a simple points/coil ignition circuit. If that is so, you should be able to check out the wiring to that very easily, and test it by manualy shorting and opening the circuit going to the points.

100% bog standard common as chips 70A automotive relay with ISO part numbering on it, made by Bosch for the VW automotive market - I can't think that anyone in the UK could be more than 100 yards from one (on a car) at any time in there life - there are 100's of millions of them around.

Private Message me with post address - I'll get one in the post to you this afternoon - you'll have tomorrow or the next day at latest.

Chris

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What triggers the spark on this machine? Is it points or is it breakerless? If it is breakerless and driven off part of the stator, then it could be the section of the stator that provides the impulses for the ignition breaking down.

My Solo engined Adventure had this problem. The stator trigger coil had partially broken down (it was still showing a resistance between the terminals) but enough windings were shorted for there to be inadequate trigger voltage to set off the electronic ignition.

It manifested itself as gradually deteriorating start, and then no spark at all.

Phil

agree with Phil, the relay is for the starter, if the starter is turning forget about this component. bell your wiring from the coils out, also check what you replaced when you burnt the wiring out. I suspect the coil or like phil says if its a points or mag type ignition system then this will be the culprit. coil insulation could have melted when you fried the wiring and now its shorting the windings.

i think the old fresh breeze solo 210 had a mag on it, the gap between this and the flywheel is critical is yours like this? my mate had this type and if it slipped due to him bodging it he lost the spark. people will know what he is like if I say pinky aka cameron phillips

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