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REVO 2 Brake lines


nigeldiver

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Iv had the new revo 2 out of the bag for first time . 1st prob slipped tip steer lines. going to remove them , till i get used to the wing . Next prob is the brake lines being long ,too long. Comes set for low hang points . iv a bailey high hang set up . Using the the 2 marks paramania put on the line im still finding them too long ! , need to take up another 4 inches above the higher mark. Going to set them by kiting the wing , and getting a couple of centimeters movement befofe pulling the trailing edge , Bit different to the manuals advice i know.. Any thoughts on this by anyone ?? regards

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Is the tip steer line the same as the fusion.....if so I dont get it :shock:

Paramaina have been told by me and other customers that the Pussic knot will/can slip cccasionally mine did :evil:

it is then possible to get the slack line caught in the prop :x

when are they going to start to listen to their customers and make a safe way of attaching the tip steer lines...mine has been modded by aerofix but (custom air) also have a mod

if you value your life get one of the mod kits.....

you need to check your brake length on full reflex and with speed bar.....as when its in this mode of flight the brake lines will effectively shorten.... :?

I take a wrap to land my fusion

:P

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Is the tip steer line the same as the fusion.....if so I dont get it :shock:

Paramaina have been told by me and other customers that the Pussic knot will/can slip cccasionally mine did :evil:

it is then possible to get the slack line caught in the prop :x

when are they going to start to listen to their customers and make a safe way of attaching the tip steer lines...mine has been modded by aerofix but (custom air) also have a mod

if you value your life get one of the mod kits.....

you need to check your brake length on full reflex and with speed bar.....as when its in this mode of flight the brake lines will effectively shorten.... :?

I take a wrap to land my fusion

:P

Surely on full reflex trim the brake line length stays the same , but just means the toggles are higher ?

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Gary has it right :D So has Paramania.

Letting out the trimmers lengthens both the C and D lines.

The brake lines are attached about 12 inches further back. So the 4" of apparent slack at slow trim is taken up by the wing profile in fast trim.

Remove the slack and you will be constantly applying brakes while trying to go faster and screwing up the reflex property's of the wing :(

Colin B

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Yes.....the line length wont actually.....change when you are on full reflex

that would be a miracle.... :o

I mean the brake handle will go higher as the trailing edge goes up.....

if you shorten the line the brake handle can come up against the pully stopping you achieving full reflex

(perhaps my special way of explaining what I meant was misunderstood ) :?

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Iv had the new revo 2 out of the bag for first time . 1st prob slipped tip steer lines. going to remove them , till i get used to the wing . Next prob is the brake lines being long ,too long. Comes set for low hang points . iv a bailey high hang set up . Using the the 2 marks paramania put on the line im still finding them too long ! , need to take up another 4 inches above the higher mark. Going to set them by kiting the wing , and getting a couple of centimeters movement befofe pulling the trailing edge , Bit different to the manuals advice i know.. Any thoughts on this by anyone ?? regards

I have just re-read the above, I fly a PAP with low hang points, therefore I dont need to adjust mine then?

Dave

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.....but are you ground handling the wing at full fast trim?

If you are ground handling at a slower trim setting then the reflex will not be deflecting the trailing edge so high and so you will have more slack than the manufacturers recommend.

Ian.

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Hi Nigel,

I had similar problems with the lines on my Revo2 (and not just brakes !), leading to lengthy discussions by email and then in person with Emilia, Deano & Pascal Campbell-Jones from the Paramania team. It seems there was a problem at the Gin factory during the manufacture of my wing (back in June) which I wasn't going to post about on public forums but it appears that other wings may have been delivered with the same problem ????

The brake line markings (and attachment) on my wing were a good 28cm too long, leading to poor handling on the ground and in the air, plus a less than effective landing flare. It also placed the handles dangerously close to the cage when they detached during hands-free flying.

Follow the instructions in the online manual: http://www.flyparamania.com/downloads/Revo2_manual_V1_eng.pdf and make sure the primary brake line (EP1) measures 3000mm from brake toggle to upper knot (for a low or mid hangpoint machine, with toggle keeper in highest position). For a high hangpoint machine add 110mm and move the adjustable toggle keeper to lowest position. Even with the trimmers in full fast reflex position you should see some slack in the brake lines (and 'D' lines).

As others have pointed out there will be more slack in the brake lines with trimmers in the slow position so you may want to take a wrap for landing. As always, do not shorten brakes below factory settings and always check the trailing edge is not pulled down at any trim setting when brakes are off.

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Hi , thanks for the replies. I have not changed the slack adjustment from my first post , ie (approx inch of the pully) . But i have tonight ground handled the wing with trims fully out and I still have the same amount of slack , (Mabye more??????????) in the brake lines . not botherd about speed bar use . Im meant to be flying the f***king thing , than pissing around sorting line lengths on the ground forever more !!!. Taking it up next sutible day.

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Hi Nigel,

I had similar problems with the lines on my Revo2 (and not just brakes !), leading to lengthy discussions by email and then in person with Emilia, Deano & Pascal Campbell-Jones from the Paramania team. It seems there was a problem at the Gin factory during the manufacture of my wing (back in June) which I wasn't going to post about on public forums but it appears that other wings may have been delivered with the same problem ????

The brake line markings (and attachment) on my wing were a good 28cm too long, leading to poor handling on the ground and in the air, plus a less than effective landing flare. It also placed the handles dangerously close to the cage when they detached during hands-free flying.

Follow the instructions in the online manual: http://www.flyparamania.com/downloads/Revo2_manual_V1_eng.pdf and make sure the primary brake line (EP1) measures 3000mm from brake toggle to upper knot (for a low or mid hangpoint machine, with toggle keeper in highest position). For a high hangpoint machine add 110mm and move the adjustable toggle keeper to lowest position. Even with the trimmers in full fast reflex position you should see some slack in the brake lines (and 'D' lines).

As others have pointed out there will be more slack in the brake lines with trimmers in the slow position so you may want to take a wrap for landing. As always, do not shorten brakes below factory settings and always check the trailing edge is not pulled down at any trim setting when brakes are off.

Bearing in mind problems reported at the factory earlier I would definately do as nigeldiver has done; that is ground handle the wing with trimmers off (fully out full reflex) and check the break line lenghts. This may be difficult on your own in anything but perfect laminar conditions so perhaps a flying mate / observer stood behind you to examine what is going on.

As for trimmer knot slip I have never experienced any problems with mine. I wonder if different knots are being used, possibly an incoinsistancy at the factory??. I will look at mine and see what sort of knot is used and post later.

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OK, here's a few pics to illustrate. In reflex mode you can see the only tension is on the A & B risers, with the C's, D's & brake hanging back in a big loose arc. There is so much slack they flap about in the wind enough to dislodge the brake handle - even with the big, powerful magnet keeper. This was dangerous (as arrived from factory) because there was so much excessive length it could have easily gone through the cage ....

The other photo shows the excess brake length pulled down so you can just see the mark I made (at the correct 3000mm length) below the brake toggle pulley. Now set to this length it feels a lot better.

The prussic knots on the tip steering were also loose when it was delivered, but after pulling them tight they seem fine and don't slip any more.

One other issue yet to be solved is the trimmers, as once in reflex mode there is no tension in the C & D risers so they are virtually impossible to pull down to slow trim with one hand. It needs one hand holding the buckle up whilst the other pulls the trim down, otherwise it simply drags down the whole rear riser set. Paramania advised 2 solutions: either twist the trim strap as it pulls through the buckle, or yank it down hard with a jerk. Neither seem to work for me and the 2 handed approach is not ideal if the engine was to cut out at a lowish altitude on fast trim ....

Any thoughts ?

57336402b0b45_revo2risers1c.png.29f5c01c

57336402b5bab_revo2risers2c.png.8327ae0c

57336402b9d69_revo2risers4c.png.6bf364d8

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Not good, that's my thought.

It needs one hand holding the buckle up whilst the other pulls the trim down, otherwise it simply drags down the whole rear riser set.

Any chance of tightening the buckle; once you've found your ideal position wouldn't you keep it there :?:

Cheers,

Alan

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Any chance of tightening the buckle; once you've found your ideal position wouldn't you keep it there :?:

The buckle is nice & tight, there is no slippage of the trimmers once set (which I understand may have been a problem with the first Revo's & some Dudek wings). It is easy to set to fast trim (reflex mode) after launch by squeezing the buckle and pulling it upwards one-handed. The problem is when you want to revert to slow trim for landing or extra manouverability. Using 2 hands is OK with forward planning and altitude (especially as you aren't normally holding the brakes in full reflex mode), but if the motor was to cut out while low you need to set them quick whilst holding brakes and lining up for a landing.

Of course you could land at fast trim and bleed off speed with the brakes, but I prefer to come down at a slower trim speed. Paramania's response seems to be that it is a product of the deeper reflex profile that means there is no tension in the back risers to hold them up. It made my first couple of landings "interesting" :roll: until I adjusted the brake lines to remove the factory 'fault', as it meant I came in at a much higher speed & angle, with slack brakes that would not flare fully !!

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The Prussic knot is a great knot, used alot in climbing, it will not slide down the line when under load , but will easly be pushed up , and easly down when not loaded. Which seems to be happening to the revo tip steer lines when not loaded !!. I will get the wing out and measure the brake line length (3000 mm). In the meantime, im glad i kept my old revo !!!

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Its a great Knot ...... :) Maybe for sliding up and down a climbing rope....

But Not for attatching permanently a paraglider steering system.....where if it does move the slack line goes very close to the prop :shock: if your lucky

If your not so lucky it goes into the prop

:dive:

I know from my experience its a major design error...

ps Ive just had a recall from my motorcycle manafactures for a potential defect.....that could effect the safe use of my motorcycle....

its a pitty Paramania dont look after their customers the same...and offer a solution to the problem and not let them sort the problem out for themselves

ie Aerofix or Custom air

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its a pitty Paramania dont look after their customers the same...and offer a solution to the problem and not let them sort the problem out for themselves

Agreed - their initial response was to suggest the importer should inspect the wings, but my argument was they should never leave the factory without a full test & inspection. Individuals from the Paramania team have been helpful but they are primarily (bloody good) competition pilots - not shop employees. When you find faults on a new wing it leaves nagging doubts at the back of your mind during subsequent flights, which is a shame as I've never had such issues with new wings from other manufacturers.

Mine was delivered direct from Paramania with no certification or weight range on the wing placard (potential insurance problems ?), no printed manual, test or warranty certificate (just a wing in a bag), with incorrectly measured brake lines, plus one of the upper B line cascade routed through the A lines (I had to disconnect lines from the risers back to the wing to untangle it). Thought I was just unlucky until this thread .....

Makes me wonder now so many different wings are built at the new Gin factory if they put their best workers on their own products and leave the trainees to assemble other makes & models ???

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The buckle is nice & tight, there is no slippage of the trimmers once set

I've confused myself with this wing :oops: , with the reference to the new 'sliding brake keepers'.

I understand what your problem is now, the tension in the Ds (lack of it) presumably allowing the riser to be pulled into a more horizontal 'lay' when trying to pull the trimmers through the buckle - awkward.

Are the D lines the correct length, just a thought?

Alan

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Hi Alan, yes, you can see the sliding brake keeper on my photo's - it just holds the little pulley away from the risers, plus the brake magnet. It works fine.

Again, correct with the riser problem. The buckle is quite strong so even a sharp tug doesn't pull the trimmer through unless you hold it up & squeeze it, otherwise it just pulls all the C & D lines down with the risers. This might be 'safe' as it is just pulling the slack until the back of the wing drops down from upturned "reflex" mode to downturned "classic" paraglider mode, but involves a pull of a good 30cm and using a 'sharp tug' as Paramania advised does not allow accurate trim setting. A weaker buckle might allow the trims to slip out from 'slow' setting.

Incorrect line length is one of my concerns, but I don't have a line length diagram to check them against ..... :(

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